Temple_Carraig_Admissions

#25: Guest - Stats

The issue relates to 1) whether parents were misled during the bid process about whether the new school would be open to all children from the seven local feeder schools. The clear impression was created that this would be the case. There was ample opportunity to correct this when relevant questions were asked on this issue. Many people do think this is a 'big deal'

 

2) the number of students of  secondary school age is going to increase dramatically in a few years time with significantly increased demand.

 

3) Is it a wise use of taxpayers money to build a third secondary school when two may be quite sufficient?

As I see it, a COI child from say Newtownmountkennedy 10 kilometers away, could potentially take preference over my child who lives 100 metres away. I see no logic in this.

Contrary to what some people seem to believe, the COI did not “win” this school.

Based on the numbers, it would not have been possible for the COI to establish a viable school within the perameters laid out by the Dept of Education.

As the COI population in the Greystones area is just above 10% , considerable support would have to be garnered from the rest of the community if a bid was to be successful.

A campaign was run “selling” a new school based on the success of East Glendalough but with the crucial difference that it would not be a “Protestant School for Protestant children”

"Applications Received 1. Church of Ireland (COI) – English Medium, Co-Educational , Faith based and Christian ethos – ( but
Multi-denominational in that the applicant patron states that they are not proposing a Protestant school for
Protestant children, but instead a faith based school that will embrace children of all faiths and none)
(voluntary Secondary School)"

Based on this assurance, the parents of Greystones put the fate of their childrens education in the hands of the COI.

Also based on this assurance the Dept of Education granted the COI the right to manage the school on their behalf.

These promises were upheld in the 2014 Enrolment Policy.

Unfortunately it was also at this point that the cracks began to appear.

Parents of COI children living in the surrounding parishes were surprised to find that they were in Category 2. (This should not have been a surprise unless they had been led to believe otherwise).
In fact this a positive discrimination, placing them above other children living within the catchment area (but not attending one of the feeder schools) and all other non COI children from outside the catchment area.

It would appear that enrolment for 2014 was higher than anticipated and very few places were available to Category 2 applicants.

I have heard that some Category 2 applicants were so incensed by this that they contacted the Dept of Education and asked to withdraw their “signatures of support” in protest. (This is obviously hearsay and I stand to be corrected on it by someone who knows better).

Strangely it would appear as if promises were made to these parents in order to garner their support (despite the fact that they lived outside the catchment area) as is evident in the Ethos Statement but not in the original application to the Dept of Education.

"Temple Carrig Secondary School was established to provide secondary education for children in the Greystones/Delgany area and also to make some provision for children attending primary schools under Church of Ireland patronage from outside the immediate catchment area."

The real possibility that a child from a COI background would not secure a place in the school now existed and the promises made were about to be tested.

The 2015 Enrolment Policy brought significant changes, there was now a new Category 0 which guaranteed right of entry to Category 1. COI children with “active parish affiliation” plus 12 “additional” places were created for COI children from outside the catchment area.

This is obviously a significant departure from the “Not a Protestant school for Protestant children” promise made to both the parents and the Dept of Education.

This policy change has had a polarising effect on what was once a very harmonious community.

The Board of Management stance that it will only explain itself after the event and refusal to engage in discussion has not helped.

This problem is not going to fade away, it will remain a wound that is reopened every year unless a fair solution is found.

Trust has broken down and needs to be re-established if this school is to enjoy the pride of place in the community that it deserves.

#8: ArthurG - Just a thought

It's a point of principle - should children be discriminated against on any basis? Is one child more equal than another?

This is nothing to do with the school being under CoI patronage for the BOM have done no more here than many other BOMs in other faith based schools around the country do (but not St Davids in Greysotnes who do not discriminate on the baisis of religion).

No school should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion, more so if everyting - land, building, teachers, etc - are being paid for by the State, and where the bidder (CoI) said it would be open to all children, of all faiths or none, equally.

Such discrimination is just wrong, seperating tiny children on the basis of what religion their parents say they have is the stuff of dark the dark ages.

And by the way I also think it is wrong for any of the 'RC' primary schools in Greystones, or anywhere, to disciminate against 'non-RC' children as well. We need to move beyond such notions in Ireland.

In any event the short-sighted actions of the BOM have ensured is that the CoI, and probably any other faith, will never again be awarded patronage of any new school in the State until such time as the equal status Act is amended to remove the provision for schools to discriminate on the basis of religion. In short no faith can be trusted not to abuse this provision to 'look after their own', and it is clear that the Minister and the Department are incredulous that the BOM have done this and are kicking themselves at awarding the patronage of the school to a faith. It was a mistake they will not make again.

What a pity, what a mess, this could have been a great school and now it is just a monument to sectarianism. The BOM should surely review their position and resign, and the CoI should review its partonage and hand the school back to the State.

The addition of a category 0, that is one step above Category 1, is a bit underhanded to say the least. The BoM should not be surprised at any backlash from the community for doing this. It also reminded me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc

One or two on this are getting a tad carried away with themselves there was always going to be an issue no matter who got patronage of the school not everyone was going to be happy that's life! Suggesting it's causing some sort of up roar in the community is horse radish. Anyone I've spoken to is very accepting that there was a genuine need for another COI secondary as nearest was East Glendalough (3 times over subscribed) ? Go to St.David's if the COI religion bothers you that much or is that where the problem really lie's no one wants to send their child there!

#31: Guest24 - Get over yourselves

Does the issue of obtaining something by deception or false pretence not bother you in the slightest?

 

This school was presented to the parents as being a school for the community and open to children from all the seven feeder schools.

 

If some other type of school was intended then the time to set that vision out was at the time of the patronage bid.

 

The DOE need to put their foot down here.

It would be quite reasonable to re-assess the opinon of parents in the seven feeder schools on the issue of patronage given what has come to pass.

If Temple Carraig and St. David's give a commitment to accommodate all local children who choose to stay local for their secondary education, for the next 5 to 6 years, that would allay my fears.
As Temple Carraig have virtually unlimited space in the coming years this could be a workable solution.
If I have to dart my child to school as local spaces have been taken by outsiders, I'll be very unhappy.

What do you mean by virtually unlimited space? Temple Carrig is being built to accommodate 750, so approx 125 per year. St David's can also take 120. Currently David's is undersubscribed as many have "defected" to Temple Carrig. But in a few years both schools will be oversubscribed based on the numbers coming out of the primary schools.

I think it's also important to note that some of the feeder schools are full of outsiders as you call them. Local children are being denied places in junior infants as the places are being offered to children from outside the area.

What provisions will be made for local children with special needs who would benefit from the ASD unit????
If it's COI children only, perhaps it should be funded by COI taxpayers ONLY???

The school will have a special needs unit as part of the build. There has been no confirmation that this will be an ASD unit.

#28: Egalitarian1 - Tangled web.

Just curious but what do you consider to be the "success of East Glendalough". Temple Carrig is in consideration for my kids but I have little or no experience of East Glendalough or Newpark so would love to hear how good a school they both are. Leaving cert results for example... do they ever feature in 'top schools' lists? How about sporting or extra curricular endeavours?

Any info greatly appreciated.

'If it's COI children only, perhaps it should be funded by COI taxpayers '

Are you kidding tax payers have been paying for Catholic Schools, Educate together schools & many many more I'm shocked at the bigoted attitude towards another religion which is a minority religion at that, which has always had great ethos hence why so many want their children to attend. Be very careful what way you are wording your comments you are coming across as having an issue with COI as a religion.

I'm considering taking my name off this petition I don't like the way this is going!

#38: - Re: Tangled web.

Sorry I know this is not a chat forum, but just to reply to #38.

Best place I can find for school stats is   schooldays .ie

Search for a school, the menu on left hand side should give you most of the info you need (School assesments, progression to 3rd level etc)

League tables are not issued by the Dept of Education in Ireland as they are in the UK. The only source I have seen is the annual guide to Irish schools in the Sunday Times.

From memory, East Glendalough was down the list a fair bit last year, from a high the previous year of 121. (this is only from my patchy memory 'though).

Stats from last year show that 55 continued to 3rd Level from 61, well above average, so I would anticipate that they will be back up the list next year.

Good luck with your search, I guess, in common with everyone else on here you are trying to do the best you can for your children.

Probably why it becomes a little heated at times.

Outdated and tribalistic approach for a generation of children who will hopefully be wiser and better than those attempting to manage and control society. Sectarianism and faith management has no place in education. Let churches gather its children in their one time, in their own church, and let society educate all for the betterment of all. That the faith concerned is a minority which leaves plenty of places for others is irrelevant. Leave teachers to teach and preachers to preach.

#42: -

Exactly. No school should be permitted to give prefernce to one child over another based on religion. For all those who think this is a non-issue, or whoworse think this is an 'anti-COI' thing - you are mistaken. This is about using religion to discriminate. If the RC church had been granted patronage of the school and then behaved in this manner the feeling would have been the same.

 

I agree with the last 2 posts. This is an attempt to urge the Board to honour its commitment not to discriminate on religious grounds. The 2014 policy was true to that commitment, 2015 goes against it and looks like a predictor of what is to come.

The Department of Education in their initial call for patronage for this school clearly stated that it should primarily accommodate children attending one of the 7 nominated schools. Religion and parochial parish boundaries should therefore have no part in the schools admission policy. All children from these 7 nominated schools should have priority over and above any child not attending one of these schools.

The school cannot change the basis on which it was given patronage of the school.

Please revert to original policy decisions which was the basis for my vote.

#25: Guest - Stats

For many the issue is whether the patronage was won under false pretences. During the bid process questions were asked about what would happen in the event of oversubscription and certain assurances given. This has the appearance as being very underhanded and deceitful.

The number of parents supporting VEC and Educate Together exceeded the numbers for COI according to the final tally.

This makes the 2015 developments look rather ill-advised.

Best thing is for a re-run of the bid process, now that the BOM has shown that they will not live up to the commitments made during the bid process.

 

Cannot see any future bids for new faith-based schools succeeding after this. That is one probable outcome.

All the hallmarks of a smash and grab ignoring the bigger picture. Very sad overall.

 

 

 

 

I voted for Church of Ireland to get the patronage of this school on the understanding that it would increase the secondary school places for children residing in Greystones. I am disappointed with how the goal posts have been changed with regard to the admissions policy.

Does anyone know how many children are on the waiting list for 2015?